Andy Gray and Richard Keys are in hot water this morning following their off-air comments about Sian Massey, the female official who ran the line in yesterday’s match between Wolves and Liverpool at Molineux, according to the Mail on Sunday, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349729/Own-goal-Mic-captures-Sky-presenters-sexist-diatribe-female-linesman–Apprentice-star-Karren-Brady.html?ITO=1490.
The first thing that struck me about this (non) story is that the Mail make sure to report Ms. Massey’s age. No mention is made of either Mr. Gray’s or Mr. Keys’ ages. Is this not a rather sexist attitude of the Mail to take? I don’t remember other officials’ ages being mentioned when they came under the spotlight.
Far be it from me to defend these two dinosaurs, (is that ageist?), but having read the alleged comments, I must say there is nothing I would not expect to be said between two male colleagues in their 50s in a male dominated industry. The comments about women not knowing the offside rule were exchanged jest, not on air, and not directly to Massey.
Does this make it right? No. But neither does it make it such an offence that either Keys or Gray should have it so highlighted. Had they uttered these sentiments on air, then it would be understandable, extreme but understandable as I’m sure there would have been complaints from some viewers. But they didn’t!
I’m sure some will disagree with me here, but I don’t think Andy Gray and Richard Keys have case to answer. They have been far more disrespectful to men in the game in the past! If Sky take any action against them, it will mean we are just a few steps away from the ‘Thought Police’.
YNWA
Julian
I’m afraid I have to disagree with anyone who doesn’t fully grasp any opportunity to have Andy Gray removed from our TV screen
Have to agree with you, although I detest Andy Gray! As does every Liverpool supporter.
She should be left to do her job. With attitudes like this you wonder why there aren’t many women doing the same job.
I do have to disagree Julian, many have gotten in hot water over comments like this.
Here is the audio
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01_04/sky.mp3
I think it is wrong, if they are in the public eye then they should keep the comments in their mind.
-Antoine
I think the comments about the Assistant Referee were in jest. The comments about Karren Brady were an opinion. Ms Brady might feel that the world of football is sexist but how many times has she adorend the pages of papers looking ‘sexy’. You vannoy have it both ways – either you are a business person or you are a symbol of sexual attraction
As a bloke in his 50s I am amazed at such neanderthal comments in this day and age. The girl had one big call and she got it spot on. How many poor male refs and liners are there?
Competence should be judged by ability rather than gender.
I’m sorry but I disagree
The comments they made were not in a joking manner they were in a derogatory manner and they are 2 people who are in a position of influence, not just a couple of 50-odd year olds having a joke down the pub. Their comments are on audio tape and they need to take responsibility for them (listen to the leaked online version if you need proof). Claiming that an official who has earned the right to referee in a Premier League match is not up to task before even seeing them officiate simply for the fact they are female is wrong when it is said with such malice – “the games gone mad” was said with complete disdain
This is not a case of the official being a poor either, such as Howard Webb. She got all but one of her decisions correct yesterday and fully justified her selection for the game. If you replace the word “female” with the word “black” and the word “sexism” with the word “racism” they wouldn’t still have a job this morning. It is completely the same situation. They need to lose their jobs and I for one would love to see that horrible little **** Gray sacked.
I’m a man. I think feminism is a joke (trying to break out of a stereotype by pigeon-holing yourself into another). I think half the racism claims in this country are ridiculous. But discrimination based on gender or race for anything other than legitimate factual reasons, such as physical or medical reasons (women are generally less physically strong than men, some races are more/less susceptible to certain environmental conditions or diseases, etc), is deplorable. The excuse that “everyone does it” isn’t an excuse and saying it’s ok because they are in their 50’s isn’t an excuse. This needs stamping out in society, not just football and Sky need to take a hardline stance.
The remarks are clearly highly offensive, since they impugn Ms Massey’s qualifications to do her job as a lineswoman based on her gender alone, rather than any shortcomings in the studies she may have undertaken, gaps in her experience, or her aptitude for such work.
That is not a non-story for the millions of female football fans around the world, I can assure you (and for many male football fans too, I imagine).
Women face gender discrimination while going about work they are qualified to do all the time.
I hear match commentators criticise match officials a lot, but they do not do it solely on the basis of their gender.
Sky’s own fairness policy is clear that the company does not tolerate gender discrimination, so why should Keys and Gray be allowed to get away with this?
If the remarks had been racist in nature (see Ron Atkinson), would you be saying the same thing?
I suppose it depends on what sort of society we want to live in. I for one am happy to live in a society where there will be no safe harbour given to discrimination of any sort.
Sky should toss Keys and Gray now, instead of indulging their wank.
Gray and Keys are dopes who should learn to zip it. Dont give the PC gang any more ammo than they have.Brady is about as sexy as last years Christmas pudding bit gas made a tidy living out of a so called sexist industry
HAS
“Ms Brady might feel that the world of football is sexist but how many times has she adorend the pages of papers looking ‘sexy’. You vannoy have it both ways – either you are a business person or you are a symbol of sexual attraction”
This comment is precisely the reason Gray’s and Keys’ comments should be a big deal. Good lord.
Massey brought up Ron Atkinson…it’ll be interesting to see if Andy Gray and Richard Keys get fired for making sexist and potentially sexually harrasing statements. Perhaps the female victims (Sian Massey and Karen Brady) should launch lawsuits against both men claiming sexual harassment and defamation of character based on gender alone
Of course the comments are sexist, as is the overall attitude of the men on the audio. Of course it can be seen as par for the course for men of their age, who grew up in a different era. And of course it’s rich, the Daily Mail trying to be outraged about such attitudes.
But it’s not just men ‘of a certain age’ is it? I had to stop looking at my Twitter feed yesterday as I was getting depressed by the comments coming from several of the fans I follow. As one person pointed out on there, would you disparage a female doctor on the grounds that she almost certainly didn’t know the fundamentals of medicine?
The point is, if nothing is done, it will never change. Brushing it away by saying “that’s just how it is” means that’s how it will always be.
I don’t want them sacked – that would cause too much negative reaction, as shown by some of the comments here (and I’m lucky enough not to have Sky, so I don’t have to suffer Gray week in week out!) – but it should be made publicly clear that such comments are not acceptable, and will not be tolerated.
Jeez – the irony of the sentence “Karren Brady this morning, complaining about sexism – do me a favour love” is almost overwhelming!
Oh and incidentally, the comment that ‘Kenny will go mad’ if the female official gets a decision wrong seems to suggest they believe he shares this attitude. I don’t know if he does, but would that extend to believing that female sports broadcasters are similarly clueless, I wonder?!
Your aricle seeks to defend the indefensible. There’s a guy who goes into my local pub to watch the match, and regluarly refers to black opposition players as ‘niggers’. Is this justified simply because it is not being aired? It’s attitides such as those expressed in this article that make it possible for people to defend sexism, racism, agism, etc as ‘jest’.
Of course they have a case to answer, and Sky should pursue it. Not to do so would be to condone it. Thius is not a personal dislike of the two men speaking, by the way. I’d argue this whoever it was.
There is no excuse and no defence for Keys and Grays comments. It was disgusting but not the least surprising. Their comments towards women and even foreign managers and coaches. They are disgusting and vile presenters and should be sacked. Can’t believe they get paid for the amount of rubbish they sprout.
If they were criticising her performance as a referee that’s fine but to suggest that because she’s a woman she doesn’t know anything or that she doesn’t belong their – that’s the worst kind of comments. They should never be allowed to comment on games ever again.
I bet that nothing happens to them and they continue to be allowed to sprout as much trash as they want.
What about if they were making racist comments? Or homophobic comments? Or Islamaphobic comments? Or anti- Semetic comments? Off air? In private? Is that ok? Surely you cannot argue ‘yes’. So why is it alright to be derogatory towards women? Towards anyone for that matter?
This is another instance of the internalised sexism in that industry, and just because it is a male dominated industry does NOT make it ok. Just as in another situation where there is a minority group being picked on by old men in their 50’s, who are coming towards the end of their careers and don’t like the changes that are happening around them.
“I’m afraid I have to disagree with anyone who doesn’t fully grasp any opportunity to have Andy Gray removed from our TV screen”- Yeah I REALLY agree here too!!! =P
its wrong to slate a person because of gender or age but if its done in private and they haven’t overstepped the mark then i’m afraid that if you start calling for people to lose their jobs its wrong we are supposed to have freedom of speech in this country and its not like the disgusting comments made by Ron Atkinson about Desailly but there is a big part of me that would take any opportunity to get rid of Gray and Keys because for as long as i can remember they’ve slagged our club every chance they get
You see sky sport is a MANURE propaganda machine! Shite like the Sun . Andy Gray well enough said. Thing is this is the most ordinary manure team I have ever seen and the way favours are going there way one wonders how the FA never addressed this problem. Are they corrupt to?
Well, if Grey and Keys thought the good call was wrong and that the lineslady needs a teaching about the offside rule, they’ve got that absolutely diabolically wrong.
If after such a long time being football pundits they still cant see that as onside, they should be sacked immediately and sent for rehabilitation shouldn’t they?
Obviously they are proving to be valuable for the ROI (return of investment)!
Any chance to get Richard Keys off our TV screens is good thing the man is the king of smug,any chance of mssrs Stelling Le Tissier Nicolas and Merson following him,then we may get some objective opinions on LFC instead of the ‘lets bully Phil Thompson for 6 hours’ circus we see every saturday
Well, if Grey and Keys thought the good call was wrong and that the lineslady needs a teaching about the offside rule, they’ve got that absolutely diabolically wrong.
If after such a long time being football pundits they still cant see that as onside, they should be sacked immediately and sent for rehabilitation shouldn’t they?
Obviously they are NOT proving to be valuable for the ROI (return of investment)!
Its a mans game, n its not thought police because there talking……
The comments made by Gray and Keys should not be defended or accepted in any shape or form and I’m disappointed that you seem to think that it’s acceptable because of thier age.
Thier comments are based on the gender and I wonder if you would have the same attitude if the comments were of a racial or religious nature.
They are public people who’s comments have come into the public domain, much as Gordon Brown’s did, and as such should be condemed.
The programme ‘Loose Women’ is simply a panel of women who sit round denegrating men .It is presented as main stream entertainment
I have now heard the audio and the air of joviality I assumed accompanied the comments, is not present. This has made me rethink my opinion on this matter. I now see Keys’ comments in particular for what they are, outdated and chauvanistic. This is not a case of a misunderstood and overheard jape between colleagues!
Just so everyone knows: feminism is not a term that means women should be superior to men. Feminism is about equality, and as a man I call myself a feminist. The problem is that the right wing in the US and UK have given the word a bad name, mostly as propaganda. Or, because there are some loonies who say things like “all sexual intercourse is really rape, because women subconsciously never want sex”, etc – and then this is used to undermine womens’ rights. So if you support our lineslady (lineswoman?) and deplore these commentators, you can call yourself a feminist proudly.