Armageddon?

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Once again let me remind all those screaming for Rafa’s head what the situation is.

The club is owned by Tom Hicks and George Gillett who are cheap and have not invested a penny in the club, the only thing they have done is burden the club with a huge debt (The debt was not caused by Rafa buying players as some have implied but by H&G when they purchased the club).

So if Rafa gets fired or walks away, who do you think H&G will get to replace him?

They will find someone who they can control, a “yes” man who will do whatever they say. They are not going to hire a world class manager.

We all heard the rumours how Man City were offering 100 million for Torres. Do you think Rafa will sell Torres? No, like he has resisted to sell Babel he will do the same because he knows that if he sells him he will not see the money from the sale to buy other players. If Rafa was to get the 100 million for the sale then I would probably be encouraging the sale of Torres. As much as I love Torres but 100 million can buy you 3 World Class players and be left with change. Remember we sold Xabi Alonso for 30 million and replaced him with Aquilani for 17 million, any other big club would have spent 40 million to get someone better than the player they lost.

Hicks & Gillett do not care about trophies all they want to do is hold on to L.F.C. as long as possible as the value of the club appreciates. Even if L.F.C. does not win a single trophy the value of the club will still appreciate as more of Asia tunes into the Premier League the TV proceeds are due to increase.

Remember that for the cowboys not being in the Champions League might actually make more economic sense as the amount of money you need to spend to compete outdoes the amount you bring in.

And that is my opinion and I am sticking with it.

Y.N.W.A.

-Antoine

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35 Comments

  1. You cannot blame the owners for that performance last night. And who do you think bought Torres?

    And if Torres goes and we have £100 million to spend, please let it be Rafa spending it because his record is shocking. And we don’t need another 5 full backs either.

  2. Agreed not rafas fault he wasnt the one on the pitch giving the ball away constantly worst performance ever till babbel and aqua came on the players should refund the ticket money to the fans who went come on lads we are liverpool

  3. No offence, but hasn’t this been the thoughts among fans for a LONG time now? Even the anti Rafa people still believe the owners are the worst culprits. But as Curtis said the owners are in no way shape to blame for the performance last night, and if thats the players demonstration against them, none of them deserve to actually wear the strip!

    Rafa has had to make gambles with some of his signings though, through the lack of funds available, and yes some have been poor, but if he had the money available I’m sure he’d do it justice.

    Nice to see reality settling in with some people, Torres may love Liverpool, but then it would be out of his hands really if it came to that. No ones going to want to buy the club now, mid league worthy team, huge debt! I can see bad things for the future, but I hope i’m wrong.

  4. sorry mate,
    i love Rafa but last night was shocking, Rafa waits till gone 60 mins before he even thinks about a sub, he’s predictable, Babel had a good run yet he doesn’t start him, Alberto is a 17mil player….doesn’t play him against big teams….doesn’t play him against small teams, why did we buy him? to play in the league cup, fair enough he has been out injured for a while but they declared him fit before christmas and yet he’s hardly played. Lucas has improved this season and as much as Liverpool fans moan about him, he still gets picked. Christain Nemeth was meant to be the next big thing…..he goes out on loan and now doesn’t want to come back to Liverpool, yes he’s young but so is Ngog, why is a talent like Nemeth being shipped out on loan, surely we needed firepower with Torres injured this season. Rafa makes baffling team selections and is too arrogant to make changes. what does Sammy Lee do, agree with everything Rafa decides just so Rafa doesn’t sack him, he did it to Paco, a friend of years and years. why doesn’t Sammy Lee suggest to play the best 11. we talk about the owners, who are yes indeed a bunch of cowboys but if they make money available, what can we offer players, players wnat first team football, Rafa rotates, the will look at the hype Babel came with and his career has desended downwards, Robbie Keane, hardly played, Alberto Harldly played, why would players want to come to us to rotate when they can go elsewhere and play week in, week out, yes players need to be rested but Rafa needs to play best 11 win fit every week, we got 9 games left this season, he has to go for it, we need fourth spot, but let’s be honest, Rafa will play TWO holding midfielders against relegation battlers at Anfield, negative tactics,
    Can Rafa win us the league (obviously not this season) or has he taken us as far as he can

  5. I really don’t know what to say about yesterday’s performance. I have not seen us play like that in a very long time (reminds me of the Souness days, but not really) we had absolutely no heart at all and our passing was horrible. We can’t move the ball and get a string of passes together to save our lives. Torres had some chances but just couldn’t bury them in the end and he looked very frustrated that he didn’t score (like a striker should think when given chances).

    I’d say fourth is far stretched like i’m sure everyone else thinks and this morning is a very downing and hard to be chipper and look at the bright things in life that we all take advantage for everyday. If you knew me, you would know that i’m a positive person and choose to think that way but today i’m sad because of what we did last year and how we are finishing this year, it was like taking two steps forward and then taking a huge leap backwards. All I can say is try to keep our heads up and walk on.

  6. We can moan about the owners all we want, but the fact is they own the club and will do until they get an offer that can’t be refused, so, until that day comes we’re stuck with them – this by the way is not a situation I’m happy with.

    What happens on the pitch is down to Rafa and the players. What happened last night was a poor excuse for what is commonly known as football. As I’ve already stated on other posts, we had no clue and zero drive last night – players seemed unhappy and really not prepared to go forward – I think Kirkland’s first ‘small’ save came in the 70th + minute – this is not good.

    Agree with other posts – what the hell are we doing with all of the young talent at the club? Surely Pacheco could have gotten a run out yesterday? And yes, we looked a little better with Ryan and Alberto came on. Would love to know what goes on in Rafa’s head!

    Sad state of affairs altogether

  7. I’m sorry, but with all due respect, this article is a pile of who-ha. And the worst possible kind to boot.

    How anyone in their right mind can try to lay the blame on the owners after last night’s performance and still do it with a straight face is beyond ridiculous.

    Granted the owners are always going to get the blame for not delivering the stadium as they promised, and deservedly so, and also for not providing Rafa with the funds he supposedly needs to build a good side ( totally untrue given the fact that Torres, Johnson, Aquilani – all GBP 20 Million or plus players – were bought thanks to their money, but I digress).

    However,….

    -The owners were not playing in that game last night.
    -The owners did not pick the team, nor did they pick the godawful formation.
    -The owners did not play players out of position (Mascherano) even when there were better suited natural players available).
    -The owners did not get the tactics wrong, especially once Torres got isolated upfront with poor service from midfield.
    -The owners did not fail to make the necessary adjustments at the half after a horrible first half – either by telling the team what needed to be said in the strongest possible terms and demeanour nor did they fail to take off the piss-poor performers (Kuyt. Kuyt and Kuyt!!!)
    -The owners were not the ones who were late with much needed substitutions and then got them wrong once they made them (Benayoun off while Kuyt still played?????)
    -The owners did not sit a fully fit (match fit or otherwise) GBP 20Million creative player on the bench for the majority of a game that was desperately crying out for creativity and better service from the midfield.
    -Oh yeah, speaking of which, the owners did not “splurge” GBP 20 Million on a bench-warmer, while other areas of the team that badly needed some serious reinforcement with real world-class players went ignored (despite everything that was said in the press in the ru-up to the end of last Season) exposing the team’s massive lack of depth at the Striker position and at the wings once Torres got injured and once Riera became unavailable and Kuyt played like Kuyt.
    -The owners also did not make a ridiculous “4th place guarantee” thus making themselves and the team the number one Media target up until the end of the Season. I mean, who does that?

    The owners were not responsible for any of the above; Rafa and the players were. And mostly Rafa, really, since he has the final word on who plays and who gets taken off if they don’t perform to standard. Let’s not forget that he had a mostly completely fit and injury-free team (save for Skrtel and Agger)unlike most of the season when it could be blamed on injuries. And you know what else? The owners did not someone at the stadium with a gun to Rafa’s head to force him to do all this.

    Please. STOP with all this nonsense of perpetually blaming the owners for every single idiotic thing even when it does not make any sense whatsoever to lay the blame on them. And mostly under the guise of trying to cover Rafa and/or the under-performing players of any blame. This has been the most sickening thing about this season – not so much the poor performances, but watching the Reds fans -especially the ones with the microphones and press access – act like some sort of cult in deep deeeeep denial of reality and try to blame anything or anyone convenient (either the owners or the media) when the real reason for the teams regression is right in front of their eyes.

    You’re making a fool out of all of us. Every single one.

    So I’m begging you to stop peddling this nonsense of a perpetually blameless Rafa, and this universe or reality where the owners would even be blamed for any and every thing under the sun. I mean, please. Stop already.

    Geeeez.

  8. Never sell Torres he is top shelf and even with a 100 million we will only get second shelf players.
    H & G might have made many mistakes but I don’t think you need Messi and Kaka to beat Wigan,Portsmouth or Wolves.That I beleive is the players that we already have (that aren’t that bad) and Rafa’s fault.
    Does anyone know what place we have to get for the Europa next season?
    YNWA

  9. I don’t think he’s defending the owners really. But he’s more talking about the fact that they are not to blame for last night.

    And I think you’ll find Souness ruined our club a long time before these clowns came along.

    Are you all post 2005 supporters here? Yes we had a great run last year, but apart from that we havn’t look like contenders for a while, and by the looks of things to come won’t again for a while.

  10. Steve, I have been a Liverpool supporter for over 30 years.

    The big difference now is that we have this huge debt on our heads.

    We now spend more on interest than we do on players.

    that is the big problem.

    -Antoine

  11. There is NO WAY you can defend Rafa for last night.

    Yes, the yanks are to blame for us not competing for the title, however, RAFA is to blame for us being a total joke on the pitch.

    Anyone who watches football would have known Wigan’s tactics before the game even started because Rafa is predictable. It is crazy that we go into a game like this with one striker and let Wigan dictate the game. We should be hammering teams like Wigan with the quality of players in the squad… Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Johnson, Mascherano, Babel, Benayoun, Maxi, etc.

  12. Hicks & Gillet did not lose the league last year.
    Hicks & Gillet did not frak up the Alonso situation the past 2 years.

    I keep hearing we need MORE money. For what? More $20 mil+ who don’t play? I hate to say it but Wenger doesn’t seem to need the big bucks LFC supporters think we need.

    This season has A LOT of blame to go around and it is across the board. Right now I just throw my hands in the air.

    1. Chris, it has been 6 years since Wenger won the league.

      Football different then.

      20 million is nothing for a player to sit on the bench, ask Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd.

      How can you defend Hicks & Gillett?

  13. We also had too many injuries. A lot of simple ones and avoidable ones.

    I actually think we need new trainers but I guess that’s another story lol

  14. I’m a realist Antoine. I’m not a blind follower. I was not defending them rather simply pointing out what faults are factually Rafa’s. I put blame where blame is deserved and praise where praise is deserved (even if its someone I do not like).

    I admit I was not responding to your post, rather previous posts. Maybe I should have made that clear.

    However, to believe Rafa is free-and-clear is also false.
    As I said before, this season has A LOT of blame to go around and it is across the board. Right now I just throw my hands in the air.

  15. ya know, Antoine – sadly I don’t know. I like the guy, I do.

    w/o the Rafa stuff going on in the thread; Your post – I have nothing to say against it.

  16. Antoine how can you possibly and with a straight face on the one hand say that

    “20 million is nothing for a player to sit on the bench, ask Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd”

    …..and then turn around and on the other hand blame the owners for not ponying up the money for new players? You’re basically absolving Benitez of effectively wasting 20 Million on a bench warmer (this, after he effectively was solely responsible for Alonso wanting out of Liverpool, and not doing enough to either keep him, or get a better replacement), and then want the owners to eat the blame for him not having what? another 20 Million, 40 million or 100 Million to waste on injured or injury prone players?

    And if you bothered to read my post properly you would have seen that I was NOT defending the owners – specifically where I said they will always deservedly get the blame for breaking their financial promises. I’m just not one for putting blame where it does not belong for the sole purposes of hiding the fact that the real blame lies with that person whom you seem to think is untouchable. Rafa Benitez is not, now, nor has he ever been, nor will he ever be bigger than Liverpool Football Club. Period. The club was here long before he ever heard of the Mersey, and it will be here long after his final humiliating exit (which I hope is sooner rather than later). To make it seem like this club will be nothing or can’t be anything without Benitez is just to suffer from a massive serious dose of delusion, that I personally will not partake in. Take of the 2005 Champion’s League Istanbul triumph rose-coloured glasses and realize that he is harming the club now more than ever and for future teams with his obstinacy and stubbornness and his inflexible stale tactics. At the end of it, all he’ll do is pick up his 20 Million contract pay-off and without a blink, take the next best offer from Juventus or whatever club in Spain and you’ll still be here blaming the owners.

    A little objectivity is all I ask.

  17. Rafa was showing dedication and promise and needs trust and faith..but these performances at this time of the year is suicidal to that cause..
    In one line..liverpool whose strength was attack now banks solely on defending…
    Sorry, no matter many think..I don’t think any team will win major honors in any competition without being attack minded..going for the kill..
    That too may bring losses but against weaker oppositions it could take the game away from them too early..
    Attack Rafa ..Attack…you don’t have much time..
    All Liverpool fc can do now is beat both Man U and Chelsea..like City beat Chelsea after getting beaten by Hull & stoke at some point…that should be a great tonic ..and that mindless display last night at DW stadium will seem a matter of the past..
    A lot ..and I mean A LOT!!!!!! has to change(in the minds of the players) at LFC for that though..

  18. Kaustav, last year we scored more goals than any other team in the Premier League.

    Stilgar, so who do you think H&G will pick to replace Rafa?

    Again for the sake of LFC I hope you are right.

  19. Wasn’t it the Board that ok’d the sale of Liverpool to Hicks & Gillett knowing they were going to leverage the debt? And if so, Why is it so anti-H&G and not anti-board. Just a thought.
    The board had to have known of the leverage to allow the sale to go through.

  20. Antoine, who do I think should they pick or who do I think they will pick?

    I think they should, or rather should have picked Hiddink when he was available and when he was sending all the signals necessary that he was not only willing and available but also wanting the challenge of managing a Premiership club again. I realize many in this club are loathe to switch or change managers mid-Season, but in the case of a scenario where the very future of the club is at stake – vis-a-vis our qualification for Europe next Season, preferably the Champion’s League via a fourth spot – then I say, no tradition or ‘Liverpool way’ is too sacred. And whether you want to admit it or not, and whether you could have admitted it or not, way back in January when it was clear that Hiddink was going to be available Benitez was never going to be able to keep his fourth place guarantee with the tactics he was dead-set on employing and with the personnel he had available as well as how he was using the ones that were actually available. Therefore the most prudent, albeit painful thing to do would have been to bring in someone with a proven track record of rescuing a team’s season and working with someone else’s personnel and try very desperately for nothing else but to get that 4th place and rescue the Season. That man is or was Hiddink, given what he did at Chelsea last year after the Scolari debacle. So what if it would have cost us GBP 20Million? We’re still going to lose at least that much – whether it be by paying Benitez off when we eventually decide to cut ties with him, or whether it’s through the Lucrative Champion’s League TV money that we’re sure to lose next Season – it matters not. More likely we’ll get hit twice, and not only have to pay Benitez off when he leaves to go and coach Juventus, but we’ll also lose European competition money for next Season (and this includes Europa League, which we currently, based on our current position will not qualify for neither.

    Unfortunately Hiddink is no longer available, which means H&G will be forced to pick from whomever is available in the Summer, which, depending on what Mourinho decides (between ManCity and Real Madrid – he’s not coming here) will liekly be between a Mancini, a Mark Hughes, or potentially an O’Neill. Not a lot of class to be had out there. At the moment I wouldn’t mind if they negotiating a non-crippling pay-out with Benitez to let him leave in amicable terms, now, and then they asked King Kenny to take over until the end of the Season (both Gerard and Torres immensely respect him, and would be more apt to stay beyond this Season, if things, as they seem to be, end up going belly up at the end of the Season), and then hope that something really good opens up in the summer to give us a rejuvenating new start for next Season which is sure to be a rebuilding Season – regardless of whether Benitez is still here or not.

    But you, and other Liverpool fans need to get off this silly blame-the-owners-for-everything trip you seem to enjoy getting on, because they are not going anywhere anytime soon (there are no Billion dollar buyers available right now, in this economic climate, and right now, it’s surely going to cost no less than 1 GBP Billion to not only buy off the club but also pay off the debt, and make a real down-payment on the new Stadium. Them’s the breaks. And playing the blame game with something that is practically unchangeable like the owners, (at this time anyway), doesn’t help the club one bit, while the real problem continues to fester at the Manager’s level, and harm the eventual recovery that we will have to under go some time soon in the future.

    That’s just the way it is, or at least the way I see it.

    1. Stilgar:

      Once again Hicks & Gillett are not going to get a World Class manager so I will not speculate on who replaces Rafa.

      H&G put us in a bad financial situation which goes beyond the field, our survival is at stake here.

      We will not move forward unless we have new owners.

  21. Antoine, I did not say that they will get us a world class Manager – as I pointed out, there probably won’t be any available, but to appease the fans if they do get rid of Benitez, they will certainly have to replace him with someone with proven pedigree. T

    hey clearly do not have the resources; thanks in part to their lack of funds, as well as the ridiculous 5 year contract they gave Benitez last year which means that even if they eventually let him go (which it seems like they will have to anyway) we will still have to pay for it and that will hamper their ability to hire someone else.

    But I see you’re still playing the blame them game – as if Liverpool FC’s financial problems only began the day the Hicks and Gillett joined the club. Whatever works for you buddy. As I’ve said, I will not partake in that pointless endeavor.

    Simply put, they are here to stay for the foreseeable future. Unless you have a Billionaire somewhere in your back pocket who is willing to buy them out.

    What I find particularly hilarious is the fact that you Hicks-and-Gillett out brigade complete seem oblivious or in complete denial of the fact that a new owner or new owners buying them out will also likely mean that they will want their own new people even at the management level; – which will likely also mean that Benitez himself will leave with H&G, or be forced out with them (shades of Ranieri at Chelsea after Abramovich bought them out). And this time he won’t have the sheen an luster from a Champion’s League trophy won only a few years ago. Heaven knows he certainly doesn’t have the protection of having won anything recently or any notable success in the League or Europe in recent Seasons.

    So in that respect, like you, I hope a new owner does come in if it will also mean the end of the Benitez era. But unlike you I will not go on harping about it,and blaming H&G when we lose to every Wigan, Reading or Portsmouth, or Lille.

  22. Sorry Antoine..but the players and coach must take blame for these silly defeats.. I mean its inexplicable how a team like Liverpool fc can lose to portsmouth , wigan, fulham, sunderland (forget the beachball…did we score..?? without the beachball also it would be a dull draw)..all in one season..that is being in a Sorry state of affairs..
    I mean look at other top teams..they too have had injuries and all but losing those fixtures never maketh a top team..

  23. First of all I did receive a vulgar reply from Stilgar which I deleted, he accused me of being Xenophobic!!!!!!

    ROFL of course the moron does not know nothing about me, he thinks I am attacking him because he is American. The classy moron does not realise I am an American too, my wife is an American, my kids are American.

    He is the first person I ever met who supports Hicks & Gillett.

    Shocking that there are morons like that out there.

    Kaustav, I was not defending Rafa but attacking Hicks & Gillett and exposing my fear that if Rafa goes we will be in deep trouble. Finishing 5th or 6th in the table is nothing compared to what lies ahead under H&G

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