Why are we at each other’s throats?

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I received the letter below from Neil and although I disagree with him on the Rafa issue he does make some good points.

Neil and I have had our disagreements and we have said some nasty things to one another however at the end of the day we have come back and agreed to disagree amicably for the sake of our beloved club.

Without a doubt we Reds are all stressed out and feel helpless about the current situation, unfortunately we are channeling the anger against each other instead of the ones who are really responsible. While we might disagree about Rafa, 99% of us agree that Hicks and Gillett need to sell and go away for our club to move forward.

And Neil is right, once Hicks and Gillett leave, things will not change overnight. Unless we get an owner who just dumps billions in the club it will take some time until we can get our footing back.

Stay Courageous and Stay Proud.

Y.N.W.A.
-Antoine

I agree with a lot of the things that you say, the yanks are ripping the club apart, but what makes me laugh is a lot of journalistic gobbledegook, (is that a word) trys to turn it in into a, “let Rafa stay campaign, as its not his fault.” focusing puerly on the yanks, and believe that when the yanks have gone all will be rosy in the garden again, looking at the situation through rose tinted glasses.
i say wake up and smell the coffee, I believe the that there needs to be a clean sweep, you say that Rafa has not had the money, he has, you don’t need all the facts and figures in front of you to know he has spent money, or weather he is in a “transfer profit,” the bottom line is that the players that are there, except for the few, are poor. he has bought the wrong players,he has let the wrong players leave, i cant believe that people defend these players, but i do respect their right to.

yes he has won us the European cup, it can be argued with another mans team, but HE did win it, also the f.a. cup, yes he won it, but we are a poor shadow of the past Liverpool Teams with no silver wear for the past 4 years and with this squad no chance in the near future.

He has changed the whole focus of the youth system to bringing in foreign players instead of looking in his own back yard, Liverpool school boys beat their illustrious counterparts in their own back yard,for the second year on the run, they have since gone on to be champions of England, no mean feat, with an 8-0 demolition of Cambridge at Anfield, and it was not just the score but the way they went about the job, clean clinical pass and move football, but to late for Liverpool as most of these players are with other clubs now.will we ever see another Gerrard or a Carragher play for Liverpool, i believe they only way will be if we have to buy him from some other club.

So please don’t try and tell me that the future of Liverpool football club is in safe hands on the playing side, he has brought all his own back room staff in, including right down to academy level.which is his right, but where does that leave the club if he is sacked or moves on ?

The tactics this season have been extremely poor at times, the decision making atrocious at times, the players look confused, lack direction and confidence, to the point that it sometimes looks like something out of a Laural and Hardy movie,his man management skills leave a lot to be desired.

so please don’t tell me its all one way, that there are only “certain” people to blame, the rot at Liverpool football club extends through the club as a whole , a cancer eating away at the club, and like any cancer you don’t just take part of it away, you take the lot.

YES, the yanks are holding the club to ransom, but i believe that they are not the only ones that are doing this to OUR great club.
ynwa
neil

18 Comments

  1. I totally agree with neil. Players look like that don’t have a clue wat rafa is doing tactically and more importantly they don’t believe in the personnel he picks anymore. Rafa is a political manager he uses his teams to make statements to the board.

  2. Neil is 100% stop on. Benitez has to go now. His time is up.
    The longer he remains the more realistic the likelihood of Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano going elsewhere.

  3. got to agree 100% with what neil has written and think its time for a total change.we are even getting a new shirt sponser for the first time in years so lets see it as the start of a new dawn and hopefuly the club with new owners and manager and staff can push on and get back in the hunt for honours witch we all crave. Ynwa

  4. gotta say I DISagree completely with Neil on this one. Absolutely unbelievable. “Rafa has been given money”? Facts and figures would be nice. I wonder why they are lacking in this letter. I will let other fans state the ‘money’ Rafa was apparently given. As for the most idiotic statement that a few other fans have uttered namely that the CL win was due to another man’s squad, I despair. Do you guys in your wildest dreams believe Houllier would have gone to the semi finals let alone win the thing with those players? Players like biscan, jimi troure etc. Rafa has shown his mastery in the CL many times. It is why we went to the finals again, semi-final, couple of quarters and smashed teams like Real Madrid 4-0. One bad season which has been compounded with many injuries and you ‘supporters’ wilt. Right now it does not matter whether we have Mourinho, Hiddink, Rafa or Capello. We are now £350 million in debt. And yes we are facing ADMINISTRATION if Hicks and Gillette don’t sell. It’s that simple. They are trying to whip up this anti-rafa campaign to divert our attention from THE problem. Using ‘senior sources’ (Chritian Purslow) and email campaigns to divide us fans. What is the point having even the best manager in the world if we are losing £110,000 every day. We need to keep as one unit right now. One unit to get rid of these blood suckers. Then and only then we can argue about who manages etc.

  5. I don’t agree entirely with Neil. He is no doubt pissed (I know, understatement), however there are mitigating factors on Rafa’s side.

    1) Playing personnel: have a look around the league standings and show me a non-spending club – I mean, to regularly improve the squad. Chelsea, MUFC, Arsenal, Spurs, MCFC, Villa and Birmingham. I will excempt Everton but their squad is stable due to the management regime. Liverpool in contrast need to sell to buy, and even then scrape the bottom to buy.

    2) Loss of personnel: as fans we hailed Rafa for last season’s accomplishment, then went on to lose personnel, notably Alonso and Arby, both lynchpins of our play. Hyypia’s departure also contributed to this. Is that a positive or negative for the club? Man U could cope with CR7’s loss as their squad is big and they still bought the likes of Valencia.

    3) Youth policy: what is Rafa to do here? The so called foreigners include Dalla Valle and Pacheco. Throw in Ayala or N’gog and show me a local equivalent.

    4) Tactics: all coaches have a preferred system, from 4-4-2 (Capello and Ancelotti) to 4-3-3 (O’Neill and SAF). Rafa’s tactics have kept working for us in the past (and in cameos this season), but with glitches this season. It’s easy to blame but harder to diagnose or support, esp when things go awry.

    What’s our problem? Lack of viable playing alternatives. These cost money, a commodity in short supply at Anfield. No one can live a positive future or even plan with loads of debt holding them back. Rafa isn’t infallible, but neither is he a poor coach. Our need to blame is landing on the wrong targets.

    Our opposing views don’t make us enemies. Our club’s growth, even after G & H’s departure won’t come overnight. Let’s support, not cut down. Whatever happens, including key departures (Rafa or players) will happen. However, there are no imminent quick fixes for us. I do believe though that departure of our “owners” WILL herald the start of something awesome – not overnight but it WILL happen.

    I will stand with Antoine on this one.

  6. Spot on Neil you are 100 % right , Rafa will never win us anything in the next 5 years he is to negative and like Arbeloa said he is robotic , we now have a new Shirt Sponsor , lets start a new and and change the Owners & Manager as well.

  7. I am really disappointed with Neil’s comments. I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Rafa is the only one fighting in the supporters’ corner. He took on the owners and that cunt Rick Parry. If he had proper backing, he would have focused all his energies in managing the team more effectively.
    He is still around because of 2 things.

    1. His family love it on the Wirral.

    2. The Supporters and the club. He loves the club and its supporters. Otherwise he would be better off with some other European giants.

  8. Sorry, but I have to say that I disagree entirely.

    Liverpool had a team a season ago that pulled in 86 points, a total that was good enough to win the title for Chelsea this year. They had the fewest losses, the most goals scored, the most positive goal difference, all hallmarks of successfully managed club.

    After that season one major first-team player, Xabi Alonso, made it clear that he wanted to leave, so he was sold for a huge profit. Alfonso Arbeloa also joined him at Real Madrid, and Sami Hyypia chose to play a year in Germany rather than take the money that was offered for him to warm the bench/join the coaching staff at Anfield.

    All three of these players were replaced in the summer.

    In came the best right-back in the country, Glen Johnson, a player also coveted by Chelsea and Manchester City, and an England regular.

    In came the next Alonso, Alberto Aquilani, a player who has represented Italy at every level and who Italian football experts rave about.

    And, finally, a few days after the season started, in came Greek international Sotirios Kyrgiakos, a giant of a central defender from a far-flung land (hmmm, now why does that have a familiar feel to it?) who’s over half a decade younger than his predecessor.

    Total spending on those players, on paper: £17 million + £20m + £2m. £32m in total. About what was earnt from the sale of Alonso alone.

    Actual spending on those players: £10m + £4.25m + £2m. A little over £16 million. A much lower figure.

    How did £17m become £10m? Well, Liverpool were still owed £7m from Portsmouth from the sale of Peter Crouch, £7m that they stood to lose most of if Portsmouth had folded, so a large chunk of Johnson’s £17m was tearing up that IOU.

    How did £20m become £4.25m? Well, Roma’s own accounts show the details of the Aquilani sale. €5m immediately, and future installments of €3m, €7m and €5m in the future, together with some performance-related payments. Liverpool weren’t handing over £20m, that’s for sure.

    Now, I have no doubt whatsoever that having sold Alonso for £30m, Arbeloa for £5m and having been told that the money from January sales (which included Robbie Keane) was also available to him, Rafa Benitez and his team had other targets all but signed, sealed and delivered.

    David Silva, perhaps? Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, maybe? We’ll probably never know.

    It was at this point (after Johnson and Aquilani were signed) that the owners cut him off at the knees and said that the money that they said was available to strengthen the squad (money that had been raised through player sales, not even through TV and other income, and certainly not through the owners reaching into their own pockets) was not going to be there.

    To use a footballing analogy, they had a Panini sticker book that was 99 percent complete, promised to give Benitez what he needed to finish the album but then failed to deliver (just as they’ve failed to deliver the new stadium that they’ve talked about since the start of their reign).

    This last season, of course, has been a nightmare, on so many levels. Shakespeare? He had his share of dramas, tragedies, comedies and farces but Liverpool’s season more than matched his entire life’s work.

    Stonewall penalties being denied, players being sent off for perfectly-timed tackles, referees failing to play the minimum of added time, injuries, injuries and more injuries, killer last-minute goals in the Champions League and the FA Cup, and what Liverpool fan will ever look at a beachball the same way again?

    Is it any wonder that Liverpool fell so far from grace?

    Having said all that, reverse that opening day fixture (the one with the dodgy refereeing) and take away that beachball incident and, hey presto, Liverpool are fourth. It didn’t happen that way, of course, but it goes to show exactly how much difference the correct decision here and there would make.

    But back to the crux of the matter: is Benitez to blame?

    In this observer’s opinion, no. I’d like to have seen other managers cope with what he’s had to cope with, on the pitch, off the pitch, from the board, from the press, from former players-turned-pundits, and do better.

    And with the debt at the club growing so fast (over £350m now, up 50m+ in what was a successful financial year), with turmoil in the boardroom and the weight of expectation from the press if not the fans, and with minimal funds to spend in comparision to 4-5 other league rivals, which sane pedigreed manager would grasp this poisoned chalice?

    Our last manager had a suspected heart attack during a game. At this rate, our current one will, too.

    Remember, though, football’s not a matter of life and death… it’s more important than that.

    YNWA.

  9. I don’t agree with Neil on this but hey he’s entitled to his opinion just as much as I am!

    I don’t believe everything will be resolved once the Yanks move on, we all see it’s going to take a while, but I believe it’s a step in the right direction. I’ve always referee to articles Paul Tomkins in reference to Rafa’s transfer ins and outs as he relys on facts and not imagination.

    I will defend Rafas tactics while yes sometimes his decisions have been poor, when a team cannot get anything from a tie against Birmingham or Hull I believe Rafa has every right to try and dramatically change something, yes it might not have been in the team talk before the game but if he believes he can make a difference to the way the match is going I’m more than happy to let him do it.

    As for the local lads not coming through that’s rubbish, Liverpool academy are trawling the local schools all the time now looking for talent and have picked up a few potential lads from the area by holding development classes within local college grounds and bring youngsters into the academy. At the end o the day the era of the boot room has unfortunalty dissapeared and rightly so if Souness and Evans were anything to go by, it makes sense to try an outsider, and houllier managed quite well bringing back some silverware in his second year.

    I do believe Benitez is doing everything in his power to build Liverpool up as best as he can. I’m not saying he’s perfect as he clearly has made mistakes but at present he is our manager and I believe in supporting him till the bitter end!

    I do believe we are at each others throats because everyone is feelig very uneasy towards the future of the club, players, staff and owners. All of which is tottaly understandable, but while we all my disagree about certain topics at least we all can come together on the yanks.

    While no one is exempt from blame we have to look at some players attitudes, and how they’ve played parts in the tatical desicions that Rafa has made. Rafa has and will make mistakes just like any manager but without being burnt at the stake here, his faults are much more publised than say Alex Fergason and wenger say. It’s only just now the media are accepting Berbatov was a flop although maxi was called one after a couple of games. I’m not crying the victim as a Liverpool fan but over recent years the media have got on our back and rightly so as they expect soo much better from us. We have had terrible lying owners who could end up damaging the club far more than it already has been.

    Last season was terrible for all involved and it was disheartening watching a team seem to hit self destruct at times and then play some cracking football at others, it was an issue I thought was being resolves but I guess not.

    If you do believe a fresh start is in order, again all opinions are allowed and would hope this can start a friendly talk with banter about what we would like to see happen in the net coming years at or club. Who do you want to manage the club? I don’t want to hear moriniho as we’ve hear it all before and don’t believe he’d take the cut in pay to take a dent in his ego for a couple of years.

    I personally would still love to see Rafa at the helm and hoping reaping what he has sewn in the youth system, I’d personally rather anfield was built upon than move (personal opinion, I believe anfield the ground and area suits he club but understand the financial situation around the ground) and hopefully to see a healthly and happy team next season.

    Hardly any of this probably makes sense as been writing on my phone in work haha

  10. You lost me at the Rafa changed the youth system to bring in foreign players…….

    Rafa wasn’t incharge of domestic youth recruitment until last summer, since then we have signed 2 of the most promising youngsters in the country and appear to be buying the Scottish PFA young player of the year.

    BTW Liverpool school boys also include Everton youngsters and I agree there is alot of talent around the city, unfortunatly since the turn of the century most of that has gone to Everton, hense why Rafa wanted control of the youth setup before he signed his last contract so he was able to rectify that situation.

    Should he go I dont think anything will change, we will not get a manager of equal or better measure until the real issues are sorted, 1)the owners 2)the debt.

  11. I completely agree with Neill. And don’t get me wrong. Rafa is still a brilliant manager, but he’s lost it somewhere and his decisions on and off the pitch have led us to this place. He continually does things that are not the Liverpool way. And I’m speaking of his comments to the press. Rafa airs more dirty laundry than the owners ever thought of doing. He is more about self preservation than club. Yes, I want new ownership as well. But I also want Rafa pack his bags. Y.N.W.A.

  12. For English Reds fans, Gerrard and Carragher played poorly this season. Aquilani cost 20 mil but the club needs only to come out 5 mil in the first season. C.Johnsn cost 17 mil but was partly set off against 11 mil owed on selling of Crouch. Not all 30 mil from the sales of Alonson go to Rafa. We should look at actual cash available for Rafa not on the value of players bought. Bear in mind not every club agree to sell players to Liverpool by instalment. Anyone of you who becomes the manager of LFC will face the same problem that is facing Rafa now.

  13. You are wasting your time MYReds. I agree with you entirely, and with many of the above, such as Harry ans Steve. however, the mindless ‘get Rafa’ brigade, who are playing into the ownders hands, seem to feel that we’d still be ‘Kings of Europe’ etc if he wasn’t the manager. I feel that he has done a good job considering the unbelievable amount of dishonesty and double-dealing of the owners, Parry, and now, Purslow.

    I’m not a Rafa loyalist. I have problems with some of his decisions. However, I’m sufficently astute to realise that the club would not attract anyone worth having if he went. Huge debts, no transfer funds, the top players leaving (if Rafa goes and if decent funds to buy players don’t show, I’m pretty sure Torres and Mascherano, closeely followed by Gerrard) would mean no manager would touch the club. Mind you, some mindless person will say, “Of course they will, we’re Liverpool”. Which just shows how thick some people are.

  14. It would be nice if people had their facts straight before making comments.

    Fact: as Gavin Smith said, Rafa wasn’t in charge of domestic youth recruitment until last summer

    Fact: as Harry said, the carpet was pulled from under him before he got the chance to purchase that 20mill striker to partner or backup Torres, who could easily have got us 4th place ( a 20mill saving that cost us 20-50mill++ not to mention possible loss of manager + players)

    Rafa goes, we go back to square 1. Ronald Cassar said it best. Rafa is the only one fighting in our corner and we’re trying to kick him out!! He’s a class class manager and we’re very lucky to have him. Come on people, use your logic. You just have to think of the team we used to have before he arrived and the team we have now. The club has probably generated around 200-250 million net profit since Rafa’s arrival (2 CL finals, 1 semi, 1 quarter, FA cup, top 4 every season) yet he’s only been allowed to spend around 80 mill, while the rest has gone to interest and loan repayments. How can you improve on 86 points (serious over-achievement with our thin squad in my opinion) by NOT spending while other teams go and spend and improve? If he at least knew his budget beforehand he probably wouldn’t have spent 18mill on a RB and 18 mill on an injured player. He took the risk on Aquilani thinking he had another class striker arriving.

    We had a horrible season, we’re all really disappointed but taking ourselves back 5 steps is not the solution. The only solution is new ownership and NO MORE DEBT. If Rafa’s given money to spend and he fails, then I will agree 100% and will join in calls for his head. NO ONE PERSON is above the club and if Rafa was not a big asset I would not be supporting him. We all want the great LFC back at the top. Impatience and bad judgment will not help the cause.
    YNWA

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