Recently I have a few heated exchanges with some “Liverpool fans” who do not support Spirit of Shankly or any action the union organises, claiming that “It will deter future owners from L.F.C.”
What a load of Sh*t!!, if there are potential owners that do not want to hear a vocal group of supporters than we do not want them to become owners of our club. As Liverpool supporters there are many things that divide us however the desire to get rid of Tom Hicks and George Gillett and replace them with decent owners (who respect our heritage and want to move the club forward) sure unites us.
Unfortunately there are many wasting their energies debating on whether Rafa should stay or go or who Liverpool are going to sign this summer. Let us get our priorities straight, we need to get rid of Hicks and Gillett and replace them SOON before our club implodes. Our debt (which was created by Hicks and Gillett when they bought the club) keeps swelling and financial experts are starting to issue warnings. With this said the “Rafa going or staying discussion” needs to be put on the back burner right now as we have a more pressing issue to deal with.
Regarding Spirit of Shankly (S.O.S.), the Liverpool supporters union; Yes, the organisation has made some mistakes in it’s short existence but let us give credit where credit is due. The union can now boast of over 4,000 members (including myself) and the mainstream media are starting to pay attention to their releases and statements, the Premier League even took time to meet with members of the group. By attacking S.O.S. over certain mistakes of the past does not do us (Liverpool Supporters) any good. Even if you do not want to join the union the least you can go is support S.O.S.’s efforts, members of the union are putting in a lot of their own time (without pay) for the good of the club and the city of Liverpool. Remember that S.O.S. is a democracy, the members of the board get elected by the fellow members.
I do urge those who have not joined the union to join http://www.spiritofshankly.com/join.htm
Y.N.W.A.
-Antoine
Dear Antoine,
I think you post highlights why some people do not want to give their wholehearted backing to S.O.S. by stating that an opinion different to the accepted opinion of the group will not be tolerated and the person having this opinion will be abused. Then you go on and call that kind of behaviour “democracy”.
While the original intention of S.O.S. is honourable they may take themselves a bit too serious. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is good that there is a supporters union, but I don’t think the way this particular union is presenting itself appeals to the majority of fellow Reds who appear to be free thinking individuals who want to make up their own mind and don’t need anybody to tell them what to think or what’s good and what’s evil.
Anateater, SOS is a democracy anyone can join and vote for the members of the board.
By staying on the sidelines you are pretty much aiding what you claiming SOS is,
if you join then your voice and concerns will be addressed.
It is the same as those who are always complaining about the government and politicians but then do not vote.
I agree fully with your article. Lets try and unite around the removal of Hicks and Gillett. Others matters, such as the manager,the signing of new players, the sale of current players are all guided by the dire financial situation the current owners have placed OUR club in. We wont be signing top players, we will be extremely lucky if we can hold onto our best players, if Rafa goes we wont be competing for a world class manager, we will be looking at the likes of O’Neill and Hodgson ( not Mourinho and Hiddink ). This will change if we can get suitable new owners to replace Hicks and Gillett. They are killing our club.
I have issues about getting the new Liverpool kit for my nephew, because the money will not be going to improve Liverpool with new players, it will be going to pay off the debt built up by Hicks and Gillett. I cant help but think of this everytime i see a young boy or girl running around Liverpool in their new kit. I think i have decided for me personally, kids shouldnt be penalised for our owners greed, but adults should think very seriously about buying Liverpool merchandise for themselves or other adult friends/family. Think about where you money is going, straight to Hicks and Gillett to pay off their debt/Loan, not to improve the club. The more people who dont purchase merchandise the quicker Hicks and Gillett sell. Its tough to get lots of fans to not buy merchandise ( may be impossible ), but the stakes are high, the future of Liverpool, OUR club, so for me its worth trying.
Well said,
As a trade unionist I may not agree with everything that a union puts forward. What is important is that the union has concerns of its members at heart. I firmly believe that SOS has its members best interests in mind concudting themselves in minor and major matters. This is why i am a member.
Potential owners can only gain from SOS’s exisitance as they offer direct dialogue and consutation with the fans. If people do not like what SOS stand for, and feel that strongly about it they should start they own supporters union. Within ten years all premiership clubs will have a supporters union.
Well, whenever I get attacked and/or abused for my opinions somewhere across the internet it is by members of S.O.S.. That is really sad, because it shows me that they would expect me to take up their opinion if I wished to join. No, in truth they would gladly take my 10 Pounds and then abuse me for my opinions afterwards. If that is democracy in Antoines eyes, so be it. I came across people who left that particular union, because of the totalitarian-like behaviour of the group. Other describe them as a bunch of thugs who are unable to put together a decent press-statement. I would not go that far, because I think the union is good for some people, but they should learn to respect that others may not share their ideas. I think things are not as black and white as they try to make them out. Surely, that kind of perspective makes many things a lot easier, but I, like many others I know, try to see things from different points of view. Even Hicks and Gillett are not only bad, but that is something the members of S.O.S. and others don’t want to see, because it contravenes with their black and white opinion.
Anteater first of all do you have proof that these are members of SOS?
If so give me the evidence and I will personally expose these people.
I have no problems with S.O.S or anybody that is vociferous in their abuse of our current owners. However, this whole attitude that Rafa should remain safe until they move on is wholly wrong in my opinion. What fans who advocate this stance seem to forget is that the pressure has already been exerted to convince the owners to sell up and there is nothing further that we can do to get in new owners other than show them the money!!!
To say that that the on the pitch affairs, that Rafa has been overlooking, are irrelevant in the bigger picture is ridiculous as Liverpool FC still remains first and foremost a football club! If the person in charge of footballing affairs is failing then he should be removed, regardless of what is going on on the business side of things
Jay, the current ownership state is effecting us on the field so it does not make a difference who the manager is.
Antoine – If the manager is so irrelevant to what happens on the pitch, why is Rafa so important??
I never said that Rafa was irrelevant, he made mistakes too but no manager can manage the club effectively with the current ownership situation.
What is the point of getting another manager? For the new owners to fire him?
Antoine – You said that it doesn’t make a difference who the manager is, therefore our current manager must be irrelevant right??
The point of replacing Rafa with a new manager asap would be to aspire to improve the playing side of the club, giving him a full pre-season to look over his squad – it is your view that it is impossible for a manager to coach his team effectively with the current ownership situation, not mine…
Jay it does not matter who the manager is at the end of the day he will be faced with the same frustrations.
Its not the SOS that is detering would be investors. Its 20 years (yes 20 years) of mismanagement on and off the field. The yanks are bad owners but uncle moores and coco the clown were not much better.
Even with the delusional SOS doing whatever it is they think they’re doing (which isnt much). There is no chance whatsoever of a billionaire riding over the horizon with the intention of throwing hundreds of millions of pounds at a sinking ship. A ship that has been sinking for 20 years.
Liverpools day is gone. Deal with it.
Looks like Peter supports another club, nice to see so many interesting in Liverpool affairs.
Im all for supporting and joining the SOS to bring about a clear out of the 2 scumbags who own liverpool who have destroyed our GREAT club. Im from Dublin with a PROUD LIVERPOOL tradition and a movement to help liverpool come through this dark spell can only be good.I want my kids to see liverpool like i did/do the traditions and values we were built on so i urge people to stand up and join the SOS.YNWA
Antoine, they claim they are, but I would not tell you who they claim to be as it would put me down on their level.
Anteater anyone can claim to be an SOS member and then cause mischief, you can’t point the finger unless you are 100% sure they are then.
Hicks and Gillette have businesses in the usa why dont you give every lfc fan a chance to protest,pick on one business each day and have fans phone constantly to complain about how hicks and gillette are ruining our club.this would give all fans world wide the oppotunity to protest and wuold hurt hicks and gillrttr where they feel it most in their pockets
Well, Anoine, so you may just claim to be a member of the union and in truth are not but someone who knows that their (the union’s) approach does backfire and is wrong and want to enhance just that because you don’t have the best for the club at your heart but the best for someone else. Theoretically that is. I don’t claim it is that way.
Yeah anteater that could be the case or it could be that they are union members, we will never know unless we can prove it.
What we should be doing is uniting and focusing on getting rid of Hicks & Gillett ASAP.
Antoine why dont you start give fans some direction in what they can do to protest people may not want to join sos but they can still protest what we really need is someone to give leadership in should we say the spirit of shankly
oh498 If I know if any coordinated actions I will post them
I strongly believe that Hicks and Gillett have just put a new chairman in place for the purpose of selling the club. Furthermore I believe that Mr. Broughton is much more qualified than I am to sell the club, so I let him go on with his job. The result of this sale will be that we got rid of Hicks and Gillett. Whether new owners are a lot better or better at all remains to be seen. So, what exactly is the point on “focusing on getting rid of Hicks & Gillett ASAP”, when they are already on their way out?
Anteater, we are in this mess because when the club was sold to H&G we were complacent.
We should trust no one, Broughton was appointed by H&G to sell the club. He was appointed by Hicks & Gillett to protect the interest of H&G. They do not care who they sell the club to but rather if that individual meets the asking price.
This is all bollox. At the end of the day we where not kicking up a fuss last year when we finished 2nd. This is what happens when we have a bad season. Everyone blames everyone. I’m f**king fed up. Bottom line is that is still rafas squad . Sh*te basically. Lucas great heart but not good enough for Liverpool. Insua average , el zhar errrrr??? No. David ngog average . And so on these are rafas players , they are not good enough. Yeah the owners are a bunch of muppets , but the bottom line is the team is not good enough and rafa is very much to blame for that. He is a political manager that likes to make statements by f**king around with the team. Who is gonna sit here and tell me he did not force alonso out of the club by going for Barry. Bollox. Any manager that thinks Barry is better than alonso in the first place ain’t got a fucking clue. So once again everyone stop blaming each other and wish for a better season .
Andy as I said the focus is getting rid of Hicks & Gillett and ensuring we have better owners.
Had we won the league this year I would still be doing the same thing and I would still be wanting Hicks & Gillett out.
Anoine, do you think that constant protesting by a group of fans will raise the profile of the club and make more parties who could afford to buy the club interested in actually putting in an offer? Do you think that we, the fans, will under any circumstances (other than we putting the money together) have any say in whom the club is sold to? Would you, if you had the money to buy the club, talk to a union that represents about 10% of the attendance at Anfield and only a small fraction of our world-wide support of allegedly 18m and obey to their wishes or would you rather think that you are the one who has the money so you are making the rules?
Anteater I am sorry but I really do not understand the first question it sounds contradicting to me.
As regards to SOS, 4000+ paid members is a great achievement when you consider that the union has only been around for two years.
Democracies don’t work. They all fail. Joining SOS will do nothing if it is a Democracy. The ridiculous ideas with the most votes will always be pushed through regardless if the failure rate is 100%. Now if SOS was a Representative republic we might have something.
This holier-than-thou Liverpool attitude is getting tiring which is why people aren’t getting involved.
Hate to break the news to you, but you’re all worried about a football club when we have Central Bankers taking over the EU nation-by-nation, the NWO pushing their agenda forward, another war in the Middle East readying (all this was predicted), the Stock Markets with an engineered collapse and I HAVE TO join SOS or no right to speak my mind? That’s like if you don’t vote you can’t complain. Bullshit! I can complain if the representation I want wasn’t on the ballot or it doesn’t support my beliefs.
Chris stop reading and listening to the Murdoch based news media.
I agree with Antoine. Just look at his comments he has been saying the truth while keeping his calm. I dont know what I would have done in such situations (when our club is down and the supporters go against each other). Thumbs up to Antoine :))
Chris are you on the right site. We are talking about the debt ridden state of Liverpool Football club on this site.
Hicks and Gillett are the problem. No debt, equals money for transfers, money for world class manager if Rafa goes, plus the possibilty of starting work on a new stadium. All the things that are not taking place and wont happen under Gillett and Hicks ownership, because of the debt they have loaded on the club. Lets keep our eye on the ball, the neccessity for Hicks and Gillett to go before the club can advance.
Have to agree with Asem on Antoine keeping his calm as such behaviour seems to be the exception nowadays.
Antoine, you don’t understand my first question, well, then I will try to put it another way: Do you think the protests will make our club a more attractive “asset” for someone who wants to buy it?
Anteater,
I do not care how attractive the investment looks, what I care about is that the future owners get the message “LFC is not a commodity but a living organism”.
Anteater, yes protesting is good for Liverpool Football club. Whats the alternative ? Let Hicks and Gilletts minions do as they wish without any comment from the fans.
Hicks and Gillett didnt buy the club with their money, Gillett and Hicks took out huge loans from banks to purchase Liverpool, which they explicity stated they wouldnt do. They are carpet baggers or snake oil salesman ( I prefer the term Liars ). They now want to sell Liverpool for as much money as possible and after paying off the banks take a huge profit. Hicks and Gillett are solely concerned with profit. SOS are solely concerned with the best interests of Liverpool football club ( No im not a member ). So if your a Liverpool fan and disagree with SOS, fine, but please aim your fire at the enemy, Hicks and Gillett not other fans.
Frank, I didn’t intend to aim fire at anyone and thought I asked a few questions in a well mannered way. Don’t see what upsets you.
Antoine, I think we should start to accept that there is no fan with enough money to buy the club. The only people who can afford it will see it as a commodity and will, at least at some stage, want to see some return for their investment. But new owners may be better than the ones in place, so we shouldn’t scare them off.
And I get the feeling that you don’t want to put yourself into the position of being a potential buyer by refusing to answer my questions. Democracy? My opinion isn’t taken serious. There you go. That’s why I don’t want to join S.O.S. Have a nice day!
Anteater, the future owner does not have to be a fan. All we are asking for is someone who is responsible and give back to the club and community.
What do you mean by “my opinion isn’t taken seriously” ? I believe I answered all your questions.
My post at 4.26. Many questions concerning your opinion, no answer, at least no direct one. I will never know how you S.O.S. people think if you don’t answer that kind of questions. I think it is important to have a look at things from different positions. Put yourself into the shoes of a prospective buyer if you can and have a look at those things.
Anteater,
It isn’t about potential buyers being lifelong fans, it’s about them understanding why the protests have occurred – and why they could happen again in the future. That surely isn’t too much to ask?
Anteater: First of all I do not understand what you mean by “You SOS people”. SOS “People” come from different walks of life, from different countries and are of different ethnic background so you can’t take my opinion and comments and attribute it to any SOS member.
Now, regarding if I was a potential owner and was looking to invest money in a Premier League club I would probably consider Liverpool because I know that there is a very loyal fan-base. I would do my research and find out what the fans (my customers) really want.
Anteater, ” i dont intend to aim fire at anyone”. What “upsets me”, is Hicks and Gillett. I care passionately about Liverpool football club, its past , present and future.
Hicks and Gillett are destroying what i care about, thats what upsets me. SOS care passionately about Liverpool football club also, i dont have to agree with everything they do, but they are concerned for Liverpool.
Your statements that, ” i think we should start to accept that there is no fan with enouigh money to buy the club”. I disagree, i dont think we need to accept that at all until we have a new owner in place. Allegedeley sheik Makthoum is a fan ( i am sure he has enough money ). The problem is anyone interested in buying the club will not be preparede to spend £800million ( according to one of our co owners thats what Liverpool is worth ).
Secondly, “The only people who can afford it will see it as a commodity”, i disagree with this comment as well. Abramovich and Abu Dhabi have bought two premiership clubs and they dont regard them as a commodity, they have invested hundreds of millions of pounds of their own money which they are highly unlikely ever to see a return on. These clubs tell us that their are potential owners who may invest their own money without expecting big returns. Liverpool is also a top brand football name.
Finally anteater, no good new investors will not be frightened away by these protests. Quite the reverse. They will see how much passion and love Liverpool fans have for the club, and how the fans will get behind the right owners.
However, you are right hopefully in one respect, it will frighten off investors who attempt to do what Hicks and Gillett have done and place massive debts on the club and expect huge personal profit, and i am quite happy about that, because thats exactly the kind of investor we dont want in the future, but unfortunately are currently saddled with ( Hicks and Gillett)
Took me a while to catch up with this, and my comments may be irrelevant at this stage. I’m confused as to people thinking there is a hollier than tho attitude in the SOS surely the fact that your opinion and voice can be heard at the meetings and will be discussed in a constructive manner gets rid of that. People don’t have to join the SOS and you can still take part in what they are doing if you feel it’s right, they constantly update there site if they are constructing an email protest or protest at the game or whatever they are doing so youcanget involved.
People feel attacked when it’s not at all they are simply givin their opinion as they feel strongly about it, it’s not about your way or the highway as people believe they just want to be heard and to try and educate people, if you think you are right don’t you want to be heard, and if they are wrong then so be it, email them and tell them, don’t moan and do nothing and bash them like you can’t get involved. Maybe your input could be just what they need or want, they aren’t going to reply with abuse they will simply reply how they see fit!
But Antoine is right the Rafa arguement is pretty much null and void right now and the pressing issue is the owners and the future of the club. Whether your a fan of Rafa or not surely the safe handling and future of our club is more importantthan this at present, maybe I’m wrong but it’s the way I feel.
But you can’t take my comments as the voice of the SOS as I’m nearly a member of 4000+, but am more than happy to answer questions on what I believe.
well done Antoine
having the courage of your convictions is what this is really all about
those who sat idly on the sidelines will be viewed bleakly when history comes to pass
anteater … a conversation with my 6 year old daughter
”dad, what did you do when them 2 yank cowboys tried to break us”
me … ” i fought alongside like minded reds to force change ”
One Corinthians fan told me a few weeks ago that ‘the badge is everything, the team are just a temporary representation of that badge. If you don’t understand that, you get what you deserve’